How reasonable is it to deny training a female employee without supervision?

43 comments

1. sounds annoying

2. Sounds smart

3. There are probably much more reasonable ways to go about this that don’t involve wasting your boss’s time.

4. If you need to supervise someone just because they’re around a woman I think they’re your problem, not her

5. Depends.

   Between very reasonable and not reasonable at all.

6. When a doctor is doing a pelvic exam, his supervisor doesn’t observe – he just has a nurse or assistant in the room to make sure there is a witness in the event of a false claim of inappropriateness. Seems like the same should apply to this situation. No need for a supervisor – any trustworthy, 3rd party as a witness should suffice.

7. Sounds like the employee is trying to cause trouble for no reason, either that or they don’t actually know how to do the job

8. I dont think its wise legaly speaking. Just work something out.

9. What does training involve?

   I don’t know how reasonable it is but (assuming training is basic AF) if you were my employee and I couldn’t rely on you to train someone then I’d lose value in you

10. Not reasonable. It’s reasonable for them not to want to train them in an isolated environment.

11. Depends on the job and the employee.

    In my field (software development), I’d find it completely unnecessary. I’d talk to the male employee to understand his reasoning better, but it would probably mean he’s not a good fit in my team.

12. Depends, train to do what?

13. It sounds very bad “to deny training.” Instead, put conditions on the training, such as: Training can be done in a common area or with the presence of at least one other person in the room.

14. Hey, everyone has the right to feel safe at work

15. Our company wont interview 1 on 1, a 3rd person would be useful to be trained. Or record the training

16. Yeah, I avoid being one on one with women at work. I worked as security for several years, and I have seen some shit. One that stands out was a female employee slapped a male employee’s ass, and he said he doesn’t find that appropriate for the work place. She got butt hurt, and reported him. We didn’t even get the chance to review the tape until after I walked him out. After reviewing the video coverage, it was clear what had happened. They actually got married that next year. Stuff drives me nuts.

17. More context is needed, is the employee an actual trainer? Have they been trained to be in that role? What kind of job? Is the training on or off camera or in a place away from other employees?

18. It can be very reasonable, or it may not be.

    You are not putting a lot of detail here. Is it only because the trainee is female, or is there something specific about THIS female employee that caused the training employee to request a supervisor? Did you ask?

    I tend to listen to people, when people request something like this there is almost always a reason.

19. [Billy Graham Rule](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Billy_Graham_rule)

    Mike Pence notably followed something like it. Circumstances probably matter a lot for whether its reasonable or not.

20. I could see someone asking this due to being accused of something in the past. There was a MMA fighter that got a lot of backlash after putting his arm around the ring girl after a fight. A year later he doesn’t want to be next to a ring girl even for a photo op.

21. If forced to train them in an enclosed area, then yes. I watched a woman repeatedly throw bs SA allegations around my old workplace. Absolute horror show.

    Scarred me for life.

22. I consider it reasonable enough, but impractical. I had to give training to newly-hired female coworkers as the only male employee and also had some situations like being alone in the lab with a female coworker until late. I understand the risk involved and how bad it’d all go to shit if they decided to make up a story to fuck me up, but the work required to avoid these situations would be way too much, and even our superiors understand that. If you want to follow this rule, more power to you, but I don’t think it’s realistically possible.

23. smart. very smart.

24. Depends on where/when the training is happening.
    Sitting next to each other at a desk in an open floor plan office vs driving out to a remote work-site just the two of us. Two very different levels of possible ‘shenaniganry’ that can happen in those locations.
    Similarly, when there are only a few people around on the night shift vs two of us among 100 other people in the day shift, there’s just fewer opportunities for anything to happen on the day shift.

    I’d also take into account the person’s history with women. If someone has one of those horrible exs that fucked up his life, his fears might be founded on experience. Even if their fears aren’t reasonable in the ‘work training’ context, he has a damn good reason for his fears to exist.
    There could also be guys who recognize that they would probably try something if they got the chance and don’t want to give themself the chance to fuck up their job in that way. Not a good look for them as a person, and I could respect that as a reason not to want to train women.
    There’s some context with various politicians and ‘influential figures’, who might have a ‘higher than normal’ incentive for someone to make claims against them. As shitty as that thought is.

    Idealistically, I don’t think any of the above should matter. I also don’t think the world lives up to those ideals all the time either.

25. He might have had a bad experience before and doesn’t want a repeat. I would say it’s not unreasonable to have someone else there if they’re not comfortable but it *is* unreasonable to expect the supervisor and not another employee be there.

26. Surveillance cameras will do

27. Its sad that adults need supervision but given the kind of BS that happens nowadays, its a smart move.

28. Your word choice is interesting. It sounds like you have a male employee who is unwilling to train a female employee unless someone else is present?

    That is not denying anyone training, it’s refusing to be put in a potentially compromising situation, and it is 100% reasonable.

    [https://www.forbes.com/sites/kimelsesser/2019/05/17/60-of-male-managers-are-uncomfortable-in-job-related-activities-with-women-heres-why/](https://www.forbes.com/sites/kimelsesser/2019/05/17/60-of-male-managers-are-uncomfortable-in-job-related-activities-with-women-heres-why/)

    #Metoo culture has repercussions, who would have thought.

29. That’s 100% reasonable. No HR department can refuse it, because were they to do so they’d be on the legal financial hook if the woman makes any sort of sexual harassment claim from the situation. Whether the claim was legitimate or not.

    ​

    Just make sure you get it IN WRITING that your management refused to accede to the request of having additional supervision during the training.

30. Well, this is unfortunately where we’re at now. And how could anyone actually say that’s unreasonable? It’s just the environment that women who made up lies have created. It’s sad that a movement like metoo that aimed to help women get a voice was taken for granted by women who used it as a free card to fuck over men and gain for themselves. When you have it set up so everyone believes women, and there is no real consequence for lying about it, why wouldn’t men start taking precautions? If anyone blames them for that and says it’s overreacting, just tell them you don’t want to lose your career and possibly way more because someone felt like making up a lie about you.

31. Boy, there are a lot of ignorant people commenting in this thread. People that have not been around co-ed work environments enough in this modern era of litigiousness to know why male employees should be protected from 1-on-1 situations with female employees.

32. Yeah, I won’t go 1 on 1 with females unless I absolutely have to. I have a dash cam for when I ride people around just in case aswell.

33. Very smart don’t tempt fate and ruin your life

34. I take it this is a male employee trying to implement the Pence Rule?

35. It is quite reasonable, and smart. Regardless of what the others say.

36. From where I stand, I 100% agree with having a witness or cameras. If both aren’t possible then I will not engage in the training.

37. That is the smartest thing a man can do.

38. Always have supervision, open door to all offices and never ever be alone. Mike Pence rule for all imo.

    10 years ago I would have been shocked that men were asking for this. Today? Par for the course.

    People have weaponized accusations.

    Source: watching this every day at work and have been part of management groups working through accusations etc to find the truth. 4 out 5 accusations of inappropriate/harassment I had to deal with (3 men and 1 woman falsely accused) I know in past few years have been exonerated by (a) video evidence, (b) automated transcripts / recording from video calls and (c) witnesses coming forward to defend the accused.

    The 5th one where the man was reprimanded was also bullshit but couldn’t be proven and quite honestly, even if he did say what he was accused off, was more of a case of vengeance/opportunity to claim damage since the comment he was accused of was so fucking stupid.

    While I don’t claim my anecdotal evidence is proof that so many accusations are fake, it’s enough in MY world that I’ve adjusted my behaviour and smart men around me have done the same.

39. It’s smart. He probably doesn’t want any issues. Maybe this person has had issues in the past and allegations of rape and wants to avoid it

40. Depends on the actual workspace IMO. Most places I’ve worked at have had cameras or open-ish offices. I don’t think I’ve worked one on one with anyone before simply because office space is at a premium. If a guy refused to train me under those circumstances, that would be pretty weird.

    But I have had interviews where they specifically had 2 or more people present, and they did share that it was to help everyone feel safe and that hiring practices were fairer. Seemed legit, didn’t think much about that.

41. It’s 100% fine if it’s truly an isolated environment.

    The number of sexual assault allegations in the workplace is not inconsequential. And this would protect BOTH employees.

    At the same time, you would have to make some accommodations to make sure this issue isn’t holding back her advancement or preventing her from learning her job.

42. If you aren’t comfortable with anyone, regardless of gender, you should ask to have another employee present.

43. Very reasonable, I was witness to a workplace sexual relationship being revealed and then the woman claiming SA to avoid staining her image… but it escalated out of control. No… it was not SA.