My (36F) husband (38M) and I have been going to couple's therapy for almost 4 months. We have a very strained relationship, and I would prefer to separate, but he is completely against divorce. Several years ago I put the responsibility on him to find a therapist for us if he wanted to salvage our relationship. Well, it took him several years, but last December he found us a therapist and we have been going weekly/bi-weekly for about 4 months.

My husband really seems to respect the therapist he chose, (male, former law enforcement) presumably because they have a lot in common. I think he is great as well! He gives a lot of very unbiased and constructive feedback to both of us. He's helped us communicate our feelings and I truly enjoy the sessions. My frustration, however, is that as soon as we walk out of the session, my husband goes back to his old ways. He doesn't put forth the effort to communicate respectfully with me, he gets extremely defensive when I talk about my feelings or frustrations, and overall, he just avoids talking to me.

At our most recent session, our therapist gave us "homework" of setting aside time for one another each night after we put our kids to bed. However, this week, we only did that 1/7 nights. That means the other 6 days, we didn't really talk to each other at all. We have a lot of scheduling conflicts because my husband in a LEO and works rotating shifts, so some weeks he is working all night and sleeping during the day. But on this days off, he chooses to do other projects around the house in the evening hours, like a current renovation project. One day this week he just walked away from me and went to the basement to watch a movie by himself because he said I wasn't treating him nicely.

Our therapist has encouraged me to avoid setting expectations in the marriage because that leads to disappointment and further resentment. So this is something I've been working especially hard on. When he lets me down or doesn't respond or react in a way I would expect, I try to not let it bother me. I have sort of grown to just expect nothing from him. But the problem is, I feel like I'm becoming more numb than ever. I've been unhappy in my marriage for a long time, but trying to ignore the minimal effort my husband is putting into our marriage feels like the end of the rope.

Is this something that will come with time? Has anyone experienced anything similar when starting couples therapy, and how did you overcome it?


39 comments

  1. He chose a cop who would take his side because “all cops are brothers” 🙄…..and then won’t even do the bare minimum. YOU DO NOT NEED HIS PERMISSION TO DIVORCE HIM!

    Of course therapist told you “not to set expectations” and is supporting you being held hostage….you are being manipulated from all sides and this therapist sucks.

  2. It sounds like youre already checked out and thats okay. he took years to find a therapist and now wont even do the homework. the writing is kinda on the wall here. expecting nothing from your partner isnt a marriage thats just coexisting

  4. I find it strange that your therapist encouraged you to not set expectations of your husband.. don’t we have certain expectations of all our relationships be it friends / family?
    I don’t have any advice, but I wanted to validate you that this seems like a very challenging marriage and situation. It seems like he is avoidant, shuts down and it doesn’t make you feel like a priority. That doesn’t feel good and you don’t deserve to feel that way. I hope he quickly realizes this and changes or you realize that you’re done waiting. You’re still young and too young to feel trapped in a marriage where you don’t feel valued. Much love.

  5. He respects the therapist, he doesn’t respect you. That won’t come with time. You need to contact your local women’s shelter and plan how you and the kids can get out of there safely. Because if he’s a cop who doesn’t believe in divorce? There’s a *staggeringly* high chance he will kill you if you let him know you want to leave him. 

  6. You dont need to worry about whether your husband wants a divorce or not. My ex wife put in zero to minimum effort while going through marriage counseling. After the 5th or 6th meeting our councilor asked to have me stay after the meeting. She told me she is checked out. Not putting in the work. Told me to stop wasting my time on her.

    Id advise the same… separate. Then divorce.

  7. You would prefer to separate, and you told him that if he wanted to save the relationship he had to find a therapist. And then you waited *several years*???

    You seem to feel like you need his agreement to divorce but I don’t understand why. How many more years of unhappiness will you choose?

  8. Besides tge fact your husband is not trying to do his part as 1/2 of your marriage, this also sets a very poor example for your children of how marriage is, or is supposed to be. Would be a shame if they accept this for their own futures.

  9. Where do you go? To a divorce lawyers office. Have some self respect, it took him YEARS just to bother going to therapy? Leave him.

  10. He’s against divorce or separating but also against putting in the work to love his wife and save his marriage?

    You want to call it quits and he says you can’t because he’s against it?

    I guess you’ll have to tolerate him until death/sickness keeps you apart.

  11. He says in the marriage because he wants to. What do you get out of it?

  12. It sounds like you want out and he’s checked out. I think you should initiate a separation and decide from there. Do you feel happy/relieved once you’re away from him? That will give you your answer. Stop trying to save this marriage you don’t even want and start living for yourself. You and your children both deserve to see you happy.

  13. I grew up in a law enforcement family and I can say it was a VERY bad idea to choose a therapist who had the same career as him. In my experience, law enforcement tends to side with law enforcement because they understand things that others don’t. But a therapist needs to be neutral and sounds like this therapist has a bit of a bias towards your husband.

    If you can, try to find another therapist who can be neutral with your situation and you can start over with them.

  14. This man barely likes you. He doesn’t want a divorce because then he will probably actually have to work at things like “caring for kids” “managing a house” and “finding a new woman that will tolerate his crap”. Where do you go? To a divorce lawyer.

  15. The thing about couples therapy is that if both people aren’t committed to working to improve the marriage, there’s very little you can do. If he doesn’t want to do the work, you can’t make him do it. 

    You are not going to change him, and it sounds like he’s too comfortable to do any changing himself. It doesn’t really matter if he’s against separation or divorce or not. What matters is whether or not you can live in the marriage you have now, and will presumably have going forward. If the answer is no, then it may be time to figure out if separation is something you can safely pursue.

    Ask yourself too, what sort of example are you setting for your kids if you stay in an unhappy marriage? At the very least, I would consult an attorney to find out what your options are.

  16. Didn’t have any expectations for your husband? I’m sorry, but what the actual fuck? Divorce.

  17. You’re wasting your time hun. A therapist can’t make him change if his wife who he promised to love can’t change him. He’s willingly choosing not to do the work. You’re the only one fighting for your marriage. Time to let it go.

  18. There is a difference between setting realistic expectations and having no expectations. This is not right and you absolutely deserve better.

  19. Well I guess if you have zero expectations then you shouldn’t be disappointed right?

    You let your husband choose the therapist…. He is clearly taking advantage of the LEO bro BS or whatever they have. It’s not working for you.

  20. You have let him drag you along for years. How much more time of your life are you willing to let him waste for you?

  23. Time to leave. My ex refused to do the work too… yeah you can’t save a marriage if only one person is trying.

    Let the therapist know he’s not doing his work. See a lawyer. Get out.

  24. Your husband is a manipulative AH who is performing for the therapist. You should be making your exit plan. This isn’t the example you want for your kids.

  25. Well the therapist is correct in a way when he says don’t have any expectations. Let me interpret this for you. Most people don’t change, and if they do, usually it’s not for the better. There are exceptions of course, but these people are rare and they are highly motivated to change. So what your therapist is actually saying is, don’t have any expectations that your husband will change his behavior. So you’re left with 2 options. Stay with him and learn to live with things as they are (or stay unhappy), or divorce him and create a better life for yourself. There is life after divorce (I’ve done it at midlife). Life is short, make it a good one.

  26. >I think he is great as well! He gives a lot of very unbiased and constructive feedback to both of us.

    By unbiased do you mean he refuses to ever take a side? Because if one person is wrong and the other one’s right, it’s not “unbiased” to present them as equally valid perspectives. That’s actually bias in favor of the person who’s wrong. 

  27. What your husband really wants is for you to just shut up and take his shit. He chose a male therapist that sides with him and he doesn’t want to do the work.

    He doesn’t give a damn about you, he’s hoping to tire you out.

    Please start working on your exit plan.

  28. >”Several years ago I put the responsibility on him to find a therapist for us if he wanted to salvage our relationship. Well, it took him several years”

    This is the most hilarious thing I’ve read in this sub, and you might as well have ended it there. The post, and your marriage.

  29. “If you are unwilling to follow the instructions given us by the counselor that *you* chose then you are telling me that you are not interested or invested in this marriage. I am not willing to stay married to someone who isn’t willing to act like they want to be married to me. If you continue this behavior you are choosing divorce whether it’s you or I that do the actual filing.”

  30. He doesn’t want to save your marriage. It took him several years just to find one and he’s not doing anything to change. You don’t need his permission or consent to get divorced. Stop wasting your time. Call a lawyer first thing tomorrow and move forward with filing for divorce. 

  31. What you are describing sounds so familiar. You sound like my husband and I a few years ago. We didn’t do therapy but we both refused to get a divorce. Me because I didn’t want to be like my parents with multiple failed marriages between the two of them. Him because his parents worked through hard stuff so he knew it was possible.

    One thing I’ve learned is what we tell ourselves about what’s happening okay a big role in the emotions we experience about what is happening.

    >When he lets me down or doesn’t respond or react in a way I would expect, I try to not let it bother me.

    There are two very important things happening in this one sentence. First, “when he lets me down” is a very loaded statement. There is a hidden assumption that he is capable of doing what he said he will do or what you have asked him to do and it’s choosing not to. Given what you’ve described it sounds like you are dealing with a capacity issue. This is usually what people mean when they recommend letting go of expectations. Instead of “he let me down” another way to say it would be.

    >I feel sad/frustrated when his capacity doesn’t meet my expectations.

    This centers your emotions on what you can control which is your expectations.

    The second important part of that sentence is “I try to not let it bother me”. I agree with your therapist that your expectations are likely having a big impact on your relationship. Unfortunately, when people say don’t have expectations they often leave out a very important part. Here is what I learned about “don’t have expectations”:

    Everyone has a model in their head of how they think the world works (our expectations). We use that model to know how to navigate the world. It’s what helps us plan for the future.

    When something changes or doesn’t match our expectations then our model of how the world works is no longer accurate. When our model of reality isn’t accurate then our plans for the future are no longer clear.

    This can be a small inconvenience like some unexpected delay when we are trying to get somewhere on time. But it can also be really significant like our partner walking away in a conversation.

    People tend to be attached to their future plans. When those plans are no longer certain they actually need to go through the grieving process. I didn’t know we had to grieve imagined futures until I was in my 30s, that was incredibly eye opening.

    The grief process has 5 stages: denial, anger, bargaining, depression and acceptance. The stages aren’t necessarily in order or linear and once a stage is complete it doesn’t mean it won’t come up again. For something small, like someone running late for an appointment, the only part of the stages they might be aware of is annoyance. But in that small example of someone being late you can sometimes see all the stages. Someone is late and you have plans afterwards. You look at your phone and say to yourself I can make it (denial), after your late appointment you speed to the next appointment (it’s a form of bargaining), then get stopped by a train you start swearing at the train (anger), then you get frustrated then sad (depression) that you’re going to miss whatever it was and then finally make peace with it (acceptance).

    Sometimes people get stuck in a certain part of the process. For some people its denial, others anger and still other depression. Usually we get stuck because sometimes moving through the different phases can be disorienting and require feeling emotions or having realizations about ourselves that we aren’t comfortable with.

    The same thing is true when we are dealing with people. We have expectations of them and they don’t live up to those expectations we have to re-work our map of reality. But that isn’t always easy because of the emotions involved.

    It’s ok to feel emotions when our expectations aren’t met. In fact it’s normal and healthy. Where the problem comes in is blaming other people for the emotions. The emotions exist because our internal model of our partner isn’t accurate. We have to feel the emotions and then revise our map.

    Once my map of my husband started to be more accurate I could see the ways that he was trying. It also helped me understand how my unrealistic expectations influenced my attitude and behavior towards him which impacted how he responded towards me. Once I could see the ways he really was trying his best and I could encourage him and show him genuine appreciation for his effort things started to change. I’ve learned since then that most men when shown even a little hint of *truly genuine* appreciation will step up in ways that are often surprising.

    It isn’t easy. Letting go and grieving expectations is incredibly hard. But it’s amazing the relationship you can have on the other side.

  32. I’m not a therapist, but a shaman. I’d like to point out two things.

    The consciousness of your relationship is always equal to the karma.

    This means that at least 50â„… of your relationship is transactional, interaction, communication, needs, desires, expectations.

    The other thing you have to consider is that in any relationship you’re dealing with two things simultaneously. First you’re dealing with reality in the present moment. Second you’re dealing with your partner’s past karma and social conditioning as it unfolds.

    Also as parents you are participating in the social conditioning of your children. Your kids are learning their relationship styles from you and your husband.

    The exercises your therapist wants you to do is to teach you both a method or technique of some sort. But see, why do you need therapy to begin with? Most married couples do not need therapy. They connect, they interact, they communicate. I’m just pointing out that therapy can be a crutch, a way of ‘duct taping’ your marriage together.

    Why did you demand therapy to begin with? What connected you and your husband? Why did you get married? Why do you want a divorce? What happened to the connection?

    You state that there’s been several years of therapy. What’s changed in that period?

    Another question I have…. How much does your husband’s avoidance of communication and following the therapy have to do with control?

    Another question for you. Do you feel you have an Internal conflict going on? Is this a disabling conflict, such as a conflict between mind and heart? What about a conflict between Ego and spirit? What’s behind your desire for divorce?

    I have so many questions. If we were working together I would be digging, and digging hard. See the answers you seek ultimately do not come from a therapist. They don’t come Reddit either. Nor from me. All your answers come from somewhere deep within you. If you didn’t already have the answers then how can you ask the questions? But also, just as importantly, can you face up to and accept your own answers?

  33. You leave. His refusing to work on your relationship should be the end of your marriage. You don’t need the therapist’s or anybody else’s permission to end it. Do it.

  34. Nowhere. You start saving money and head to the lawyers office. Therapist was taking your money without telling you the truth. If he wanted to do it, he would’ve already done it. He won’t change. Don’t waste your time, heart or effort. He sure isn’t.

  35. > Our therapist has encouraged me to avoid setting expectations in the marriage because that leads to disappointment and further resentment

    Uh, what? It’s not having expectations that leads to resentment, it’s your husband utterly refusing to step up and meet your very basic and reasonable expectations (including that he engage with the homework *this same therapist gave you*) that leads to resentment. Why is your therapist blaming you for being upset by his neglectful behavior rather than addressing the fact that your needs constantly go unmet by your husband? Why even give you homework if he’s telling you you’re not allowed to expect that it happens?

    > When he lets me down or doesn’t respond or react in a way I would expect, I try to not let it bother me. I have sort of grown to just expect nothing from him

    Yeah, this is you becoming emotionally numb and it’s a very predictable result of your therapist’s advice to stop expecting anything from the man you married.

    > Is this something that will come with time?

    Only if your husband suddenly decides to step up and participate in repairing your marriage, which it sounds like he has no intention of doing. It took him YEARS to find a therapist, when he did he found someone he thought was most likely to side with him, and when given opportunities to put in effort to address issues he abjectly refuses.

    So ask yourself your own question: Do YOU think this is something that will change?

  36. >he is completely against divorce

    This is very interesting, given what you wrote.

    So…WHY is he “he is completely against divorce”?

    Less Money? Less sex? Having to keep house himself? having to look after kids himself? Having to manage a household mental load himself? $$$$$???????

    Because if he was “he is completely against divorce” for *other* reasons, like;

    he cares about your happiness, he cares to work as a team with the mother of his kids, he cares to be a good role model as a married couple/parents to your kids, he shows he cares by putting in effort, then maybe you could save this. But given what you say, I doubt it’s the for second bunch of reasons that he is “completely against divorce”.

    If you rate the therapist, ask him to help you separate in as un-messy a way as possible, get your money’s worth.

    All the best! I hope your next phase is excellent.

  37. “He’s against divorce”
    Well if he’s not willing to but in the work to make the relationship work then frankly that’s not his call to make

  38. You can lead a horse to water, but you can’t make it drink. Your husband refuses to put in the work to change, so he never will. Get the divorce.

  39. This exactly: You do not need anyone’s permission to divorce him. If you feel you do, here’s mine: He is being a selfish jerk and clearly isn’t invested in staying married. He has demonstrated over and over that your needs are not his concern. That’s not a partnership. You are unhappy and have been for some time. He is not going to change. You can and should get a divorce.

    If he wanted to, he would….your husband doesn’t want to.

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