My Background: 41m, married 18 years, 3 kids, a cool dog, and 2 cool cats. I Retired from the military. I’m a College grad. I’m currently Working a good paying job (six figures). Get to travel (in 🇯🇵 right now).
My problem: I am crippled with doubt and hate for myself every single day. If I mess up one small thing anymore whether at work or at home I just can’t take it. In meetings I always feel like I’m the stupidest idiot in the room. I’m told I do great work and even got an award from my company recently. Even after all of this, I hate myself and my own perception of my capabilities.
I grew up poor, with little education, but I worked hard and grinded to get to this place, so why when I feel I should be at the pinnacle of life do I feel worse than ever? I deal with Sewer slide thoughts often. I can’t stand the thought of letting people down to the point it is crippling me.
26 comments
Here’s an original copy of /u/AccordingFisherman45’s post (if available):
My Background: 41m, married 18 years, 3 kids, a cool dog, and 2 cool cats. I Retired from the military. I’m a College grad. I’m currently Working a good paying job (six figures). Get to travel (in 🇯🇵 right now).
My problem: I am crippled with doubt and hate for myself every single day. If I mess up one small thing anymore whether at work or at home I just can’t take it. In meetings I always feel like I’m the stupidest idiot in the room. I’m told I do great work and even got an award from my company recently. Even after all of this, I hate myself and my own perception of my capabilities.
I grew up poor, with little education, but I worked hard and grinded to get to this place, so why when I feel I should be at the pinnacle of life do I feel worse than ever? I deal with Sewer slide thoughts often. I can’t stand the thought of letting people down to the point it is crippling me.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AskMenOver30) if you have any questions or concerns.*
At least you’re aware that your own perceptions do not match objective reality about your professional career.
It really sounds like you could do with some therapy. Like, yesterday. While you’re travelling you should start looking for therapists in your area and book so that you can see someone as soon as you’re back stateside.
Hmmmm …. I can identify with this somewhat. You’ve definitely got imposter syndrome more severe but all the other things I have experienced.
Well, here’s what worked for me.
I got a little therapy, got on a mood stabilizer and then an antidepressant for ADHD. The diagnosis helped with the shame I had. Then I got sober in Alcoholics Anonymous. I’m going to try to list the things that helped me the most from my journey through the 12 steps. Me and everyone I know who’s done them think everyone should do them at least once. I’ve been through them 3 times, myself. About to do another run through.
First. I’m NOT Christian. The g word is used, but higher power is so much better because my conception is so so so so so much different than the concept of god that I was taught. It’s not even the same thing. Do I believe in god? The answer to the question people who would ask me that is no. But I do believe in a concept that I get strength from.
These two things, medication with therapy, and working the steps, I feel my mental health is healed. I haven’t had suicidal ideation in YEARS! It was daily for me my entire life. I still can’t hardly believe it. That’s usually a life long issue.
It comes from a spiritual awakening and a fellowship of people with similar experiences. Feeling a part of. And a huge sense of gratitude. It’s a powerful practice and it does take work. Fake it till you make it.
Tell me more about these cool cats and dog…
You seem like a particularly motivated person. Have you given yourself a rest within the past year or so, or even ever? It can be really easy for these thoughts to snowball if you never step back and reset. Letting your brain rest can also let you comprehend and appreciate your own accomplishments. Your first paragraph is a lot of men’s dreams.
I’d also seek out some therapy, for multiple reasons. Mainly it’ll help you unload a lot of this, and talking it out to a neutral person can help just from getting the words out. I went through a divorce several years ago and therapy helped me let go of a lot of BS I was grasping on to that had manifested during my first marriage.
We all have doubts.Sometimes if you’re in an especially stressful job it’s better to take a step back and take a pay cut just to lessen the stress.Any job that gives you suicide thoughts is definitely not worth doing. I don’t care how great the pay is.If it’s that stressful leave. I had a job as an engineer one time that paid fantastic money but I stressed constantly and [worried.My](http://worried.My) boss thought I was doing great but I constantly worried that something would go wrong that couldn’t be fixed.I never took an assigment like that again and I felt a lot better in my job and personal life. Money isn’t everything.
Relax, you’re not alone.
As a therapist I have this conversation with people of all ages and from all walks of life. It affects all of us at some point (incl therapists)
What helped for me, when i go down that road is: look at the people around you, and picture them in your role. They might be experts in their field, but would they function well in your role? maybe for that specific meeting they would, but the other 5? I know doctors who can’t change a lightbulb, and smart engineers who could not call a supplier to get things moving if their life depended on it. To me, it sounds like you don’t need to be the smartest in the room, but just smart enough to grasp in basics what issues are and how they impact the organization. you need to be the one who can see the bigger picture, and translate it to what’s needed at that time. The smarter people are, the more focussed they are on their specific flavor of smart. They can get real stressed out over things you consider an easy fix. If you make their life better, then there’s your value. one time that can be bringing a cup of coffee at the right moment. Another time, that is convincing higher management that something is needed in a language they understand.
ALso, treat yourself like you treat others: you mess up, own it, fix it, or ask for help on time. We’re all humans, we all make mistakes and if you don’t, you’re not actually working, but pretending, and playing safe. The difference between a valued member, and a bad one is: how do you deal with your mistakes.
I’m 45 and just got a promotion. The leadership team thinks I make the sun rise and set, but apart from being amicable and good with people, I’m probably the dumbest person in any meeting (plenty of PhDs floating around where I am). My undiagnosed but very likely ADHD brain does a few hours of “work” a week, but I’m still here. Blows me away. I get it, mate, and clearly you (and I) bring enough value to work and home to be useful.
I had the same feeling 3 years ago, I dont really know how I get over it, but I was brave enough to share my thoughts to my friends, they encouraged and helped me during that time. You can share to your close friends, talking may help, dont keep all the negative thoughts drag you down. You will get over it soon or later
Man I literally just spent all day dealing with the same shit lol. Was considering quitting my job and finding a new one so I can get a fresh start.
No advice to share. Just wanted to let you know you’re not the only one. I think it’s normal to feel this at times, no matter where you are in your career.
I hate how this phrase has just become something people use to garner attention and sympathy but really just to try and brag about XYZ
Hello, brother.
It may sound cheesy and cliché, but you’re not alone. My story has parallels to yours, but I won’t unpack my story or make this about me. Instead, I’m gonna write you a big response below, with a TL;DR right under this, and also say that you can PM me if you want to set up a chat on Discord at any time, boss.
*TL;DR – It’s not your fault. There are cultural pressures that have consistently point us in the wrong direction of our true goal as men. That goal is to be a good man. Goodness in a man comes from three pillars: kindness, generosity and excellence. These pillars each have two sides between the people in our lives and ourselves that must be balanced. Imposter syndrome comes from an inability to be kind and generous to ourselves in recognition of the excellence we are chasing or achieving. Failing is part of the pursuit of excellence. You must be kind enough to yourself to allow yourself to fail if you want to be able to ever pursue excellence. You must be generous enough to yourself to recognise your achievements in the pursuit of excellence if you are going to be able to sustain the pursuit.*
**Longer response**
It’s not your fault. We are surrounded by a culture that does not embrace failure at all. It’s a culture that pretends failure isn’t a natural and critical part of the human experience. It’s the root of toxic masculinity that consistently points you in the direction of anything but the true goal we are all chasing as men: to be a good man.
Our education system is set up this way. Our entertainment and media are set up this way. Men kill women. Men are violent. Men are out of control. Men only feel anger. Men are only as valuable as the things they produce for their family, their community, their country…
This culture programs us to the view that failure=death, when failure just means learning (most of the time, anyway, there’s obviously some things that failing at has catastrophic consequences).
The goal is to be a good man, and the goodness of a man is measured against three pillars:
1. Kindness – not only to those around you, but to yourself as well. This doesn’t mean being nice. Nice is a mask for survival and kindness is often not very nice. It’s not nice when we deny our children sweets, but it is kind.
2. Generosity – as with kindness, this isn’t just to those around you, but to yourself as well. Generosity can only exist when there is no expectation of benefit from whatever is given. You buy the person behind you in line coffee because you’re generous, not with the expectation of anything in return. They don’t even need to be grateful.
3. Excellence – the pursuit of excellence really, but more than anything, always doing your best. Your best in any given moment is going to change. You may be talented naturally in a number of different ways. The pursuit of excellence is about growth of your skills instead of exploiting your talents.
Imposter syndrome comes up when we find ourselves in a position befitting a degree of excellence that we are not kind or generous enough to recognise ourselves as deserving. You may not be kind enough to yourself to allow yourself to fail in the pursuit of excellence. You may not be generous enough to yourself to recognise that you have achieved the degree of excellence that you have. When a man doesn’t have the excellence pillar, they are much more prone to depression, resentment, anger and violence, because the pursuit of excellence is the pursuit of purpose, but that’s a whole other kettle of fish adjacent to imposter syndrome.
What’s most challenging is that imposter syndrome, from my experience, arises more often in those people who are able to be outwardly kind and generous to others. Those of us that were raised to be people pleasers. That externalised kindness and generosity often becomes the justification for not giving ourselves the healthy internalised kindness and generosity:
“I can’t take a risk of failing, because others are depending on me.”
“I haven’t done enough to deserve this promotion/opportunity. My colleague is way better at this than I am and they deserve it more.”
As dads we face this all the time – we forego our own needs to provide for the family.
I’ve overcome my imposter syndrome with those three pillars of goodness of men and by remembering where the control lies. You cannot control others. You can only control yourself. In that same vein, it’s none of your business what other people think of you. You must be able to say no to others when they ask too much of you. You must be able to say yes to yourself when you want to chase the excellence.
Through that control, we can show our sons and daughters what good men look like. We can show them how self control leads to a better future.
And that’s why Bill and Ted were right when they said:
*Be excellent to each other.*
Hey brother. 49 year old married father of two in the UK here.
I was you about 5 years ago (sadly without the dogs or cats – family allergies!). Absolutely crippled with self doubt and imposter syndrome.
Therapy – specifically Acceptance Commitment Therapy almost certainly saved my life. Genuinely.
To be clear – ***therapy does not solve your problems*** – but it gives you tools to solves those problems yourself.
One of the most powerful concepts I learned during therapy was the mantra ***”Thoughts and feelings are not facts”***. It sounds almost crazy now looking back, but I hadn’t really realised that – that the imposter syndrome feelings and thoughts ***should not be treated as facts***. Now I have fully internalised that concept, life is so much easier. I’m not vulnerable to the negativity of imposter syndrome – I’m just interacting with the world authentically.
I won’t go on regards the tools that worked for me, but I sincerely recommend therapy to address the issues you have. ***Therapy will not solve your problems*** but it will give you the tools to solve those problems yourself.
You deserve to feel good OP. ***You deserve it and it is possible***
(There’s also the small matter of sobriety. I gave up booze 3 years ago and I’m like a new man. My inner child has reawaken and it’s amazing)
Sounds like therapy territory. Literally just use your health insurance you pay for anyway and speak to a therapist. One on one, discuss how you are feeling and let them help you sort through it. This is nothing remotely you have to deal with on your own.
I say you set very high standards for yourself. I did the same. Now you are accomplishing them . Give yourself a break , don’t over think it. It could be your military experience making you doubt yourself. I was in the military, I remember how we always strived for perfection.
You got a case of the ‘shoulds’, brother. You feel bad because you think you ‘should’ feel good. That’s going to attach you to those negative feelings without giving you space to actually look at them.
If you’re feeling bad about stuff, then you’re gonna have to *feel bad*. Honestly. So that you can actually understand what those bad feelings are trying to tell you. You know your life isn’t “bad” per se, but there’s something in there that your body is trying to communicate, and if you don’t listen because you’re so hooked on the *idea* that it’s *not supposed to feel that way*, you’re just going to get sucked into trying not to feel that way and it’s going to make it the only thing you’re willing to look at.
I think you’ve gotten some great advice in this thread, and it’s worth reading through carefully. I’d add radical acceptance to the list. You can’t move on from anything if you don’t know what you’re moving on from. So be with those feelings awhile without judging them. Get em a cup of coffee and let them tell you what’s actually going on. If they turn out to be bullshit, dump em (obviously easier said than done, but not impossible). If there’s something real going on with you, then you’ll be able to deal with it. Good luck, good man.
Its okay to have doubts. You have done a lot in life to get this far though, to the point where you no longer need to ‘fake it til you make it’ because you’ve made it, friend.
As you said, you do great work. Do you know someone who does better work in your field? Do you not like what you do? If there’s nobody who does and you like what you do, perhaps you need a hobby or side project to work on.
You’re probably too much of a badass to have anyone to look up to.
You are a product of your own success. Just take a look around at the life you have created for yourself and your loved ones. Your wife and kids LOVE you. Your doggy loves you. You are the reason these people have the life they do. They are the little piece of this crazy world that belongs to you.
Your employer and your coworkers respect and admire the work you do. They look to you for your expertise and know that you are great at what you do. They put you on airplanes, so you can go and do your thing, _because_ you do it so well.
You have to stop and smell the roses sometimes my friend. I know that is a cliché, but it truly is a powerful notion.
We all make mistakes. Everybody fucks up. It’s just part of being good at what you do. Making mistakes is directly correlated to effort. It is a sign that you give a damn and will try things because you care enough to take a risk. When shit happens, you reassess, restrategize and move forward and hit that goal.
It’s time to allow you, to _love you_.
The most important person to not let down is yourself. Come up with 2 or 3 core values. Mine are help my kids, help others where I can, and enjoy life.
I had a period at work where I made a couple fairly big/expensive mistakes. I was really hard on myself. I was fortunate that I had a boss and project lead who cared about me and helped me a ton. That was 12 years ago, and I need to call my old boss to say thanks.
edit: I’m headed to Japan this summer. Any advice? I know I need to “not be loud” and I will have to work on that and other general Japanese etiquette.
I used to be like this, then I just decided that if other people kept giving me rewards and promotions, then I should just believe them about what I am.
The vast majority of the population is not exceptional, you are comparing yourself against the best of the best when the vast majority of us are just average or slightly above or below.
I used to suffer from this, thing about it is you have to realize the contradiction. You think you are an idiot who is incompetent, however at 41 you’ve got a career, wife, nice job, etc. So if you are an idiot, everyone else who can’t see it must be even stupider, or have such low standards that they are happy with your performance, which means, you have nothing to worry about, because if even if you are correct, everything is going well in the minds of the people you think matter.
Acceptance brother. That little voice isn’t going away, if anything, its made you the man you are today. Go watch Birdman.
I’ve struggled with imposter syndrome myself. I went and obtained a PhD and almost everyone in those programs has it. I work for a big tech company in software and currently have some AI patents – my background is not in software.
I say all of this to show that you don’t ever want to be the smartest guy in the room even though some times you might be. It’s a product of success and pushing yourself is why you have imposter syndrome. It’s natural for high achievers.
Prioritize what’s important in your life and try to leave other peoples opinions or what you think other people’s options are…at the bottom. Show up. Try your best. Learn. Use AI to educate yourself about every aspect of your work. These things will help immensely.
I couldn’t handle middle class life when I arrived. I spent my time in school learning about my major instead of socializing, because growing up working class means you need results not experiences, and when I went into entry level positions in my field, I felt completely out of place. Still do in those situations I am surrounded by middle class people. Completely different frames of reference. And no, middle class people aren’t interested in what lower classes can bring to the table.
Know that most everyone is just faking it in some aspect of their work life. Some are better than others at it.