Over the last few years I had to help my sister get out of a relationship safely with a nasty and controlling boyfriend.
Part of that process was coming to understand controlling and coercive abuse and the laws around it.
One of the side effects though was seeing how prevalent the exact same behavior is in so many of my male friends relationships.
And its completely normalized. If I read the information available on this kind of abuse it just describes the lives of so many men in their relationships.
And my attempts to discuss this with people generally leads to people getting angry, attacking me, justifying it, dismissing or worse saying the men need it or even deserve it.
What's the reason for this and is there any hope for change?
31 comments
Because people lack empathy, broadly.
We don’t care about men, on a societal level. As a society, when an issue impacts women, we change society. When an issue impacts men, we blame the men.
DV is part of this. Men are expected to take it, both verbally and physically, while not responding because we can do more damage. This ignores the dehumanising, infantilising and humiliating aspects of being slapped, especially in public, regardless of the physical damage done.
It’s one of my biggest pet peeves, along with people saying “well women have it worse”. I’m sure that’s very comforting to men who are suffering.
It isn’t normalized. It’s largely ignored. That’s a problem, but not the same problem.
DV towards men in general has become a big issue especially during and post COVID – with some countries in Europe seeing more than double the reported cases. 130+% for some Balkan countries.
Starts with Sexual abuse, physical and ends with emotional abuse.
Another issue is the lack of safe place for men – especially seeing the big shoot up in abuse there are just no men houses. We here in Germany have two; one is overflooded and the other only takes regional men.
What doesn’t help are misandric idiots and those horn dogs that think rape of students by their teachers is funny and a dream. If we could… Remove… Those people, I believe we’ll have a much easier time being taken seriously.
It’s a learned behaviour.
Girls grow up watching mostly their mom organize the house and try to control their brothers on day to day stuff. Nagging their Dad. They learn how to treat men from that.
I don’t know what to say, but I hear you, and I also think that it’s wrong and very one-sided.
Men are expected to just take every misery world hands them, it’s just one more thing on the pile men call their life.
Do you have a link to some of the information? I’m curious because maybe there are things most of us may not even notice.
The only time men get respect from society, or from women, is when men set and enforce strong boundaries. It’s normalized against men, because for decades men have been pushovers. Indoctrinated to believe that standing up for ourselves is toxic. That standing up for others is toxic. That our only value is in giving to others, while wanting anything is seen as evil. You’d have to go back decades to find it mainstream, on movies or tv, commercials, etc, to show masculinity in a noble and revered manner. Even in the 80s, there were stabs and jabs at men. Hell, look at shows like I love Lucy or bewitched. Emasculating starts a lot sooner, is my point. And all the while, society ate it up as funny. Never once thinking about kids watching it.
Psychology shows that kids under a certain age, literally don’t have the development to question what they’re being taught. They just absorb as fact, what they’re told is fact. Then, they don’t develop the ability to question until much later. But then, the damage is deep rooted. Over generations, the seed has grown.
And TV is only one means by which that indoctrination has taken root. It’s been in schools the same way. They don’t stop the bully. They step in quick to stop once the bullied are standing up for themselves, or for another. They demonize anything masculine, from the very get go. While putting on pedestals anything girls do.
So it shouldn’t really be so surprising how blatant things are now. Men are often the target of abusive women. But society still demonizes the men for being abused.
There’s only one way to stop this… and that’s for people to collectively stand up against it, when it happens. A boulder doesn’t move until enough force is used. Throw a pebble at it, and it stands still.
Same goes with this. One does little or nothing. Collectively will change it. If the vast majority stand up against it, it will change. Otherwise, it won’t.
As soon as society normalizes equal rights in law enforcement the real numbers will be surprising. FL is one state that follows this directive.
Sadly, a large portion of this starts with men.
If a man is being abused by his gf/wife, and he tells other men, he’ll usually get mocked. Male police officers will dismiss him, coworkers will call him names, etc.
Maybe he gets 1 of his friends to show empathy, but for the most part the male culture around him tells him to “suck it up” or to “fix it”
One of my guy friends reluctantly confessed to me lately that he’s in am abusive relationship, and I just listened and showed empathy. He said that no one in his life was doing that for him, even though he’s got a lot of males in his life, and he broke down.
Men: start being the change you want to see, and stop pushing toxic behaviors
The public believe men should shut up and take it.
I got diagnosed with PTSD because of my ex-wife, I was told by people who WATCHED it happen when I asked them to come to court to share what they saw “I don’t want to get involved with it.”
My mother contributed to it, told her to her face what she had done, she blew it off and said it didn’t happen.
I don’t think there will be any hope for change, as horrible as this will sound, until more men kill themselves from depression. And I mean a SIZABLE portion of the male population does it as the current amount doesn’t seem to catch notice which is already way too many.
The rich set the standards and then trick the rest of us into arguing about them instead of fixing them.
Societal norms. The men I’ve known who’ve suffered domestic abuse have hidden it. Usually for decades. They asked for no help, and few saw their plight. Those that did didn’t know how to address it.
One of my fathers friends has been subject to physical and mental abuse for at least 30 years. He is still in that relationship. I only found out a couple of years ago he’d gone through this. Looking back with my eyes open, I now realise I saw him with facial injuries all through my childhood.
He’s a big chap, tall, broad and gentle. He’s a good man, he never liked physical contact, (I do not hug him at his request). But he dresses up as Santa each year at Christmas, he listens to what the children from our church and surrounding area tell him. He’s jovial and kind. He’s a respected member of the community.
I’ve never spoken to him about what he’s been through. I have a lot of respect for this man. Yet I have no idea how I would bring this up with him. I don’t think he would be comfortable with me doing so.
I believe the abuse stopped about 5 years ago. Before I was aware it had ever happened.
I do not think his story is exceptional. I do not know how best to deal with this type of situation.
His wife was always strict but she was never unkind to us. I didn’t know. I feel bad and I feel like I should be better, I just don’t know how.
Because society values the lives of women more than the lives of men. Men are expendable resources, women are to be protected at all costs.
See: war, the entire concept of ‘women and children first’, the push for women in [X industry] but only fun/safe industries and none of the hard/dangerous ones, the complete disregard for any issue that solely affects men, and as you say issues around family law.
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There’s this stupid cultural norm around women being the ‘smart’ ones when it comes to relatiinships/communication/understanding emotions.
It isn’t just bullshit, but it creates a lot of double standards. If a group of guys got together and decided which guy was going to get which gal in their orbit, it would be considered monsterous. Yet I’ve sat in McDonalds and listened to women do this as if it were perfectly normal. If a bunch of guys decided their friend’s gf was a bitch and they needed to break them up, those guys would end up pariahs, yet this is entirely normalised and consequence-free when women do it. Because women are just the natural authorities on these matters, of course they have the right to do this shit.
Funnily enough the old canard “I can fix him” has prob resulted in similar numbers of men being manipulated and abused as women. They either get in way over their head and become his victim, or they make him their victim. Sometimes both.
So i was emotionally and occasionally physically abused by my ex-wife. I will tell you there were 2 reasons I stuck around as long as I did. 1. We had a child. But in the end I decided to be as amicable as I could to build equity with this insane individual. It worked. My daughter is now 16. We have been apart almost 12 years now and there is nothing I could do that she could say boo to. She’s done enough dumb shit over the last decade. She owes me. 2. I felt like I was doing penance. That I had cheated on a great girl with this…idiot and I should suffer because I deserved it. This woman tried to fundamentally change me, at my core. And I let it happen for a few years. She would get drunk and blame me for everything that ever happened in her life. She would hit me and throw things at me. Call me names. I finally had enough. Told her it was over. She moved in with a new guy immediately. I took a few months. Refocused. Helped myself. Had some flings to cleanse my soul. Decided I was not going to settle for anything. Ever again. Met my current wife and she is the best thing I could have ever hoped for
The stigma is that there is no way a 110 pound woman could be so domineering. We stay for personal reasons. But ultimately its because the man is supposed to be the strong one. The BIG MAN. Being abused makes you feel weak and helpless. But to step not and say so is also weak. It sucked. I hated my life for 6 years.
In my experience, it is *very* hard to even convince other guys they are a *victim* of something. I feel like a salesman trying to push a product the customer doesn’t want.
Our society tells men not to complain, to suck it up, “Be a man,” and so on. It’s something we all get from the time we’re kids. It’s horrible and broken and it soaks in.
Think about the kinds of heroes we see in movies. Clint Eastwood made a career playing the loner cowboy who kills the bad guys and then rides off by himself, having no emotional connection to anyone, no relationships, no nothing in his life. That would be s a horrible way for 99.99% of us to live, but it’s presented as some kind of ideal.
For a lot of people who can’t see past the idiotic programming, a man who is abused deserves it because he should be like Preacher from *Pale Rider* and solve his own problem.
There’s hope for change, but it won’t happen fast. The system is designed for the benefit of the Ruling Class, who run it the way they want it run, and work hard to keep everybody else divided, using racism and sexism and anything else they can think of to stop people from realizing how much they have in common and how great it would be if they worked together.
The fact that “Happy wife, Happy life” is supposed to be amusing says a lot.
Called the cops on my abusive ex wife, they charged me, kept me in jail a night and put a protective order thus costing my roof and losing many of my possessions as when escorted I was given limited time to collect my stuff and treated like scum by the cops escorting me.
The good thing is that got that monster away from me and years later I’m in a better place in life, met a wonderful woman who loves me and cares for me, no manipulative stuff from her and she always wants what’s best and I hope I make her feel as loved and cared for as she does me.
I used to wonder why people stay with an abuser and well in some ways you don’t see it until it’s potentially too late.
Society has double standards, and it always has. I hope this isn’t news to you.
A lot of people, men included, assume that men are little more than clueless oafs when it comes to the human experience.
For the most part, men are on their own.
In recent years, women have become more aggressive, in general.
I’m currently in an emotionally abusive relationship. The thing is, I’m seasoned in how to deal with abuse so my girlfriend doesn’t understand I’m several steps ahead. I already left, I’m just physically still here. I know I can’t raise the same flags, complaints and ask for certain help. It’s all on me. Everything gets flipped, I’m the villain no matter how much she does. I take accountability and work on my flaws while in this madness. Right now, my brain feels like it’s breaking into trillions of pieces. I just think about how much stronger I’ll be once I make it through this. I hold on to love even though I feel so much hate every day.
It starts early, with circumcision. We tell boys their body is not their own and should be modified to society’s desires.
We use excuses that would never be acceptable against women to take away their autonomy but are fine against men
“Parents: i think it looks better cut”
“A future partner may prefer it”
“It saves a few seconds of hygiene effort”
And if a man does have trauma or anger from it – instead of support, we give them ridicule because they aren’t conforming to the expectations thrown at them
I think it’s because society has historically portrayed men as the “strong” half of the relationship. That men are supposed to be the head of the household who is “in control.” Also, with men being genetically bigger/stronger for the most part, society has normalized the idea that “men can easily protect themselves.”
However, society has failed to shift/update its narrative that domestic abuse can manifest in many ways and that they can happen to men and women alike. This outdated mindset has created a stigma of shame which largely discourages reports/admittance of domestic abuse in men; and simultaneously perpetuates the idea that such acts do not happen as often as it does to women. It is disappointing that this is still the case today.
Though it could be the optimist in me, but I think there is hope for a change. There is more conversations about these topics now than ever before, but there is still a lot of work that needs to be done. Maybe starting with having the conversations with our friends and family that ANY forms of abuse should be taken seriously no matter the gender. Also, resources for domestically abused men should be as readily available as it is for women.
I called the police on my wife at the time because she hit me. I was done with her. They came and did nothing. They claimed that since I wasnt physically hurt nothing would be done. They even asked her if she hit me and she readily admitted it with attitude. Those guys were useless.
I’ve got one thought assuming there are no kids.
A lot of DINKs enjoy lifestyles they would never enjoy single. I make more than most people in my friend group but I was single through most of my 20s. I had to rent in a studio apartment just so I could pay off my loans and enjoy some conveniences. A lot of them took expensive vacations, weddings, cars, houses/condos, you name it because of their relationship. Hell even taking a day off. I have guys on my team who don’t make much but regularly request unpaid PTO because half of their CoL is covered by sex mommy. They are willing to lose hundreds of dollars for spurious reasons.
A lot of dudes don’t want to admit that they probably aren’t economically self-sufficient without their partner. All of those luxuries you enjoyed as a DINK are now going to fully paying your mortgage/rent, your bills, and otherwise just losing the tiny economy of scale that comes with pooling resources with one more person. Leave an abusive GF and your cost of living effectively doubles. A man’s worth in this world is primarily economic. Leave your abusive GF, lose half of your money, become half of a man. It’s kind of a twisted equivalent to the reason many women stay in abusive relationships except you can’t even admit that you are broke and need help. Losing a DINK partnership bursts a bubble that a lot of dudes aren’t willing to burst.
It’s harder to explain to women that emotional abuse and manipulation is an animal behavior that needs to be civilized than it is to explain the same thing about violence to men because it’s so much more obvious and causes so much more immediate damage.