I'm making this post because I had an especially weird date and if nothing else this was cathartic for me to write. I don't speak for all women this is just how I go about things. You're free to disagree.
My date was, by all conventional measures, great: charming, handsome, and he asked good questions. I brought a lot of energy and interest so it makes sense why he was completely blindsided when I said I wasn't interested in a second date. He got really strange and desperate when I said I wasn't interested so here's the feedback I'd give him:
I.) Please Respect Boundaries.
When I state a boundary, I need it to be respected. If I have to repeat myself multiple times on small boundaries, I don’t feel heard and I start wondering how you'll behave when the stakes are higher.
Example 1: I said I just wanted a casual coffee date just to get to know him and while we were setting it up he tried to set up a second date at the same time. Then he tried to make our coffee date a full day event and he made me reiterate several times "no just coffee. Let's see how things go before planning more."
Example 2: I told him very clearly I wasn't comfortable with him paying; that I prefer to start things off on equal footing and would be paying for myself. He said "how offended would you be if I did anyway? Guys are supposed to pay for pretty girls because it makes us feel good."
Note: This indicates to me that he's willing to prioritize his ego over my comfort and explicitly stated preferences. That's not a great sign. He's also making me reinforce a boundary again which makes me already suspicious of and disconnected from him before I even met him in person.
Enthusiasm is good but don't use your enthusiasm to bypass people's comfort.
II.) Learn to Recognize Soft "No's".
Examples:
-"We’ll see" = a boundary, not an invitation to push harder.
-"Maybe another time" = not now. Not up for debate.
-"Just coffee" = just coffee.
-"I'm interested but I'm only available in the evening." = Please don't text me constantly. Let me have my space.
-"I'm busy tonight and I'll get back to you tomorrow." = I'm tired and I want to play Minecraft because I'm not feeling social. Give me some space please.
When I soften a "no" I'm trying to be polite, not ambiguous.
III.) You Cannot Manipulate Someone Into Loving You.
Effort doesn’t create chemistry. Attraction isn't a negotiation. Love can’t be engineered; it has to be mutual.
You can do everything right and still be rejected. All you can do is learn how to be respectful, develop the aspects of yourself you like the most and find a way to showcase them and hope someone will be interested.
IV.) Bring a Little Passion. Bring a Little Joy.
On our date you didn't really talk about anything. I brought most of the energy.
Note: The healthiest men I've personally seen readily talk about their family, their job, their hobbies, stuff they enjoy. They share personal anecdotes from childhood, they talk about a project that they're having fun with, they talk about their pets. I got nothing from this guy.
I don’t need a performance but give me something to connect to. Share what lights you up. Offer an emotional anchor.
V.) Ask instead of assuming leadership
You were projecting your own script of how a date should go instead of listening to what I was telling you.
My suggestion would be if you're the type of guy who thinks you need to set the tone of the date and you're the one who needs to be assertive, considering phrasing it as a question, e.g., "Are you comfortable with X? Are you interested in doing Y?" And then leave space for me to safely say "no. "
Your first goal is to make me feel safe with you, which means showing that you care about what I want.
VI.) Handle Rejection Gracefully
You can like someone and think they're great but not want to date them.
Rejection isn’t a moral judgment.
It’s not a failure.
It’s not something you can "fix" with the right words or gestures.
When someone says they aren't interested in seeing you again, the right response is:
"I respect that. Thank you for letting me know. Wishing you the best."
Anything else, such as begging for clarity, arguing, bribing, guilt-tripping, dramatic gestures, etc, comes across as pressure and manipulation and not romance. Do not say, "is there anything I can do to change your mind? What did I do wrong? But I bought you this gift?"
Have some self-respect. You deserve to want someone who also wants you.
No one is obligated to justify their no to you. You are not obligated to justify your no to anyone.
I’m not unsympathetic. Rejection sucks, and it feels personal. But it’s not a reflection of your worth.
In conclusion:
He wasn't dangerous. He wasn't creepy. The date went well enough. The red flags were mild all things considered but even those subtle breaches in trust were a preview of a dynamic I want no part of.
The issue wasn't the surface-level conversation which we connected a lot on, but a series of underlying behaviors that made me go "yeah absolutely not."
I don't think most men are trying to be pushy or manipulative. But if you don’t learn how a lot of women perceive certain behaviors, you might accidentally come across that way.
I didn't tell him these things because honestly it's not really my job and I'm sure it wouldn't have been productive coming from me. He'd likely have seen it as an opening to argue and debate. I just wanted a clean break.
37 comments
Yes yes YES to all of this. That behavior is a major turn-off for me as well.
Love the 6th point! I think it’s wonderful advice for everyone that is dating.
This is great! But unfortunately a lot of the men who would benefit most would get angry halfway through reading it 😅
Quality post. Not bashing but being completely honest with the situation.
Not speaking for all men, but im appreciating your personal insight, ty
Well as it is said, with the right woman you can do no wrong, with the wrong woman you can do no right.
If I’ve said it once I’ve said it a thousand times: boundaries are not the jumping off point for negotiations.
Totally agree. I once dated a guy who would get quite frustrated if I opened my own car door because it was “his job” as the man. If the car is turned off I don’t particularly feel the need to wait for you to get out and walk around. I am not turned off by chivalry but the men who live and die by it are not compatible with me.
I feel like he made you feel much more uncomfortable than what you’re portraying because these are some very valid constructive criticism and to feel the need to tell him he probably needs to hear them!!!
Honestly asking – are you sure this was a good date and you genuinely enjoyed yourself?
all reasonable. too bad so many people aren’t. and that goes for all genders.
Thanks for sharing some good insights. Also, it is nice to hear a woman saying a man SHOULD talk about himself to help a woman get to know him better. It can be done without dominating the dialog. Also nice, though interesting, to hear a request to ask instead of assuming leadership. Fits nicely with the intention of equal footing.
VII. Don’t look almost exactly like your date’s brother.
Yeah that was a weird one.
Well written .
To a small percentage of us not only do we know , but we enjoy showing that we know without being told .
We don’t take these things personally , in fact we encourage the boundaries because it’s a combination of showing who we are and creating an environment where she can better be herself .
We are well aware that most guys don’t know or care about any of this and that as has accurately been said most would get angry reading it .
In my opinion the premise as to why some don’t care is they deny or they choose to be unaware of the level of angst and the measures a woman must consider on meeting someone for the first time. Specifically , why that is necessary
If you are informed and show consideration , you are thinking of her from the start and that is just at the date phase .
I do find it mildly interesting that a % of women with these boundaries don’t adhere to them and push them aside maybe wanting to give the guy a tick , but that’s a thing for the girls to discuss and hopefully be stronger with .
I applaud OP for her post and agree especially with the not telling the guy .Some guys will genuinely learn from it and be better but telling the guy what you need him to do will often create a delusion .
Holy shit dating you sound stressful as hell! That dude dodged a bullet. Could you honestly say that you want a dude to play these mental gymnastics and games with words around you?
He liked you and wanted to impress you.
He sounded a bit pushy but portions of this contract you drew up in your head is kinda lol. Do you usually operate on a magnus opus of invisible assumptions?
You also kinda contradict yourself, he wasn’t interesting to you. Yet you are saying rejection isn’t a failing. It absolutely is.
Sounds like he dodged a bullet
As a guy yes yes YES to all of this!!
Did not know that “we’ll see” was a “soft no”. 🤔 I got some things to think about lol
I’ve had dates just like this where I *didn’t* see those subtle flags 🙄. Good on you, OP! This is well written and very insightful. Wise ones will take notes.
III)
I personally would prefer the right side of of the equals, don’t need the extra layer of polite, direct communication is super helpful to my Audhd brain. I don’t find it impolite, if anything it is more clear and prevents me from asking questions intended to clarify rather than question or push (which is unfortunately how it comes off).
Not trying to defend him, just providing another perspective
IV)
You brought the energy, but did you ask questions or make a safe space for him to share?
Seems more like a job interview with op. I get it boundaries need to be respected but all I’m hearing is I did this, I did that…did the guy do anything of significance? I respect the outline and bullet points but did you ever get to the “what are you looking for?” Question. I think that is a big make or break in continuing anything when it comes to online dating.
Yeah I’m not reading all that
The soft no stuff does bother me a bit. At least some of it. Whatever the intention, it is ambiguous. If you’re intentionally looking to see how they handle ambiguity, then fair enough. If not, I don’t see the harm in being direct.
Like, “we’ll see” is not a boundary. It’s entirely ambiguous regardless of how you mean it. And given it’s your first time meeting this person, if you’re going to set a boundary then you need to do it, and check that they understood, in my opinion.
don’t soften no. It’s pointless. And some guys don’t understand hints. Just say no, even that is going to be missed by some.
In other words you just didnt like him… Thats It, i dont thing this guy did anything wrong he just encounter a girl thats waste his time because she was not into him.
This was an interesting read, admittedly (sadly) I’ve never been on a date before so it was interesting to read about subtle hints women use. Don’t know if I would have missed some (I hope not) but good to know. Honestly I was thinking maybe you should have told him some of this so he would know for the future but only if he was willing to accept the criticism
You make me so grateful that I am happily married.
Good lord.
He is probably thanking his lucky stars by now.
🙄
Are we the same???? Because all of your boundaries are things I’ve had to repeat multiple times and it’s exhausting! I lose 80% interest at this first hurdle.
OP sounds like an INTJ
This is kinda complicated for me. It’s not an attack on you, I don’t really have much experience socialising.
My current rules for myself is that I let the woman set the pace and I try to match up to that. If she texts me at night then I see that as a green light to do the same, if she asks me random questions throughout the day then I see it as that’s something I can do as well.
Naturally, this don’t go well with most women lol but I take it as part of the cons of this approach. The pros are that I now don’t have to worry about overstepping boundaries. And she don’t have to feel creeped out.
Sigh, life’s hard. Be assertive but be empathetic to how she feels. Takes initiative but also asks if she is fine with it but also don’t ask too much so as to keep the element of surprise. Show that you are willing to take risks but blame is on you when it backfires.
A smarter or wiser man could do all these. Prob.
Are u me? Coz I had the same thing happened and made a similar post regarding this. I ended things with him yesterday
As a well adjusted man it’s always comforting to know that basic decency and my bare minimum EQ puts me above like 90% of of these guys 😂 idk how women even end up on dates with so many of them lol. Maybe they are just attractive idk
You still seem to be thinking about it a LOT.
Yet, one managed to cover everything the good way, without pushing, respecting boundaries, and hearing there’s an interest from her side… And getting rejected too… So nothing’s written for sure… Unfortunately. So acceptance for moving on is the only way