What’s the biggest personal sacrifice a leader* from your country has done to keep the nation/ the country together?
August 22, 2024
*by leader I mean a Monarch, Prime minister, Chancellor, President.
21 comments
One of the biggest personal sacrifices made by a Finnish leader to keep the nation together was by Risto Ryti, the fifth President of Finland. During World War II, in 1944, Ryti signed a so called Ryti-Ribbentrop Agreement with Nazi Germany, which guaranteed continued German military aid to Finland against the Soviet Union. He signed this agreement in his personal capacity to allow his successor more flexibility in negotiating peace with the Soviets. After the war, Ryti was sentenced to ten years in prison for his role in the war, a charge many saw as unjust given that he acted to protect Finland.
Edit replying to comments:
> Whitewashing a criminal? u/bloodsucker_
> finns sure do love siding with the nazis u/Odd-Escape3425
It saddens me deeply that the sacrifices made by so many Finns during World War II, and the hardships endured by the generation of my grandparents, are often stained by ignorant comments suggesting that Finns were Nazi sympathizers or aligned with their ideologies. The alliance with Germany was a desperate and difficult decision made in the face of an existential threat from the Soviet Union, not out of any alignment with Nazi ideology. Thousands of people lost their lives defending their homes and families, and it’s disheartening to see their sacrifices overshadowed by misunderstandings of the complex and painful choices that had to be made. This situation bears similarities to what Ukraine faces today, where a smaller nation is forced to make difficult decisions to survive against a more powerful aggressor. These decisions were driven by a need to survive as a nation, not by shared beliefs or values with the Nazis.
Erik Scavenius. He was prime minister during most or WWI and again from 1940-1943. He did a very good job balancing Denmark through WII as a neutral state. And he similarly balanced Denmark on a knife’s edge during WWII with the so-called “policy of negotiation.”
He ensured, e.g., no death penalty, court cases to be held in Denmark, lenient punishments, convicts were to serve time in Denmark, and avoiding an order of deportation of the Jews.
This all until August of 1943. The resistance has grown bigger, and at the same time, the Nazis had taken off their velvet gloves. The government stepped down, refusing to accept the demands of the occupation force.
Scavenius got harshly judged after the war and h4 is not considered a “hero of the nation” or anything like that whatsoever. But he and his government did the best they could for Denmark during a very difficult time, and made good but unpopular decisions.
His analysis that Denmark was in no position to fight back against Germany and that guarded cooporation was the wise course of action, is now largely agreed upon.
On a lighter note: When Queen Margrethe II recently abdicated to let her som become king, it was the first time since 1146 in Denmark that a monarch abdicated. I don’t think it was too much of a sacrifice for her, though. She is getting old, and now she gets to enjoy a peaceful retirement.
Converted to Catholicism (Henri IV of France) I suppose.
No great history of personal sacrifice otherwise.
OK Charles de Gaulle move to England which is quite bleak when you think about it but I was only 4 years…
I tell you who’d be bottom of the list for putting the country first: David fucking Cameron.
Took us into a Brexit vote for party purposes and then walked away from the mess he’d created the day Britain voted to leave.
What a self serving cretin
Kaiser Wilhelm II and the old monarchists like Hindenburg and Ludendorff were to blame for Germany’s defeat in WWI. Yet the Kaiser never had to face any personal consequences and lived a comfy life in a palace in the Netherlands.
While republican politicians who tried to stabilise the county and move forward fell victim to political Assassinations in the early 1920s like Matthias Erzberger (the guy who signed the armistice of compiègne) or Walther Rathenau who was foreign minister and tried to work with the Entente powers and protect the Republic.
The First Italian prime minister, Camillo Benso Count of Cavour when he was still prime minister only of the kingdom of Sardinia (and piedmont) went to war against Austria to start the unification of Italy and ordered to flood a series of rice farms to gain time until the French army arrived. Almost everything he owned was invested in rice farms in the place he flooded.
During the height of the Red Army Faction terror campaign in Germany in the 1970s the security services informed chancellor Helmut Schmidt that the RAF were likely planning to abduct or kill him and his wife Loki. The threat was real, the RAF had murdered a well-known and highly protected german industrialist just days earlier.
They both immediately signed a decree in which they explicitly forbid the German government to negotiate for their release should they be kidnapped. Effectively signing their own death warrants in advance so Germany wouldn’t give in to terrorist demands.
Years later Schmidt, infamous for his chain smoking habits, was asked what it takes to lead during such a crisis. His immortal reply was “Attitude. And cigarettes”.
Fun fact: Germans later joked that he only did that because he knew that he wouldn’t last very long in captivity without a constant supply of cigarettes and would prefer immediate execution over nicotine withdrawal.
And during the Munich massacre, the attack on Israeli athletes at the 1972 Olympics, the mayor of Munich personally offered the Palestinian terrorists to exchange himself for one of the Israeli hostages. Which the terrorists refused, but the courage needed to even offer it still impresses me.
No heroic stories that I can remember.
It is said that Leopold Figl beat the soviet delegates in a drinking competition while discussing the end of occupation after WW2. I guess the hangover next day is a sacrifice.
Personal sacrifice….maybe Churchill. He was disliked by Parliament and had to make some tough decisions, but if it wasn’t for him I firmly believe the other MPs would have signed an agreement with the Nazis.
Not sure if it counts as a ‘sacrifice’ since he didn’t end up losing anything by it, but king Albert I led the Belgian army throughout World War 1 and stayed near the front line for the entire war (while the government fled to France). There he decided to not retreat the army to France and to keep the frontline in Belgium, which in hindsight was (probably) the right decision.
After the war, he initiated talks that reformed the Belgian political system. Most notably, he managed to convince the politicians to accept the universal singular voting system, which was the main demand of the socialists. By acting as a mediator, it’s possible that Albert managed to deter a potential revolution, or at least decreased political tensions.
Philippines:
Offer his life to awaken the people
Rizal, Aquino
Flee the country to avert civil war
Marcos
PS: Marcos is a villain
António de Oliveira Salazar from Portugal sacrificed himself for the country avoiding Portugal to join 2WW.
He is known for walking around with his shoes with holes and was very humble and no one can point a finger to his effort to try to save the country.
With the years he got stuck to the power and lack of adapting to modernisation on all aspects (including Human rights and colonies) ended up to stain all his career however no one can say that he did not sacrifice himself. Until this day people keep saying that he was the only incorruptible politician that we had (and obviously they also criticised his measures against freedom that he was using in 1930-70 and that were normal in 1930/40 in all European countries).
Michael Collins, signing the Anglo Irish Treaty that established the Irish Free State and laid the foundations for the Republic. “Think, what have I got for Ireland? Something she has wanted this past 700 years. Will anyone be satisfied in the bargain? Will anyone? I tell you this, I have signed my death warrant.”
He was shot by anti-treaty forces 9 months later.
Brave Boris Johnson only had 12 parties during lockdown instead of the 15 originally planned. It’s hard to find a better example of putting the needs of the country before the needs of having a fat sesh with the lads.
I know he’s very much fallen out of favor but I will never not be impressed by Juan Carlos I letting Franco believe he would inherit and uphold his absolutist regime, only to then turn around (as a pretty big surprise) and lead the country into democracy. I don’t think it’s a personal sacrifice per se, but he could have had a LOT more power… and didn’t take it.
A bit ironic, but we Hungarians had two Jagello kings (a Polish dynasty) who died for Hungary, both against the Ottomans. The first in the battle of Varna, the second in the battle of Mohacs. And unfortunately i cannot imagine that any Hungarian politician would do such thing now despite they are Hungarians. Also, fellow Hungarians, if you read this and can come up with other examples, please do, because I feel bad that I couldnt find anyone else (Imre Nagy would qualify, but his sacrifice was not self-chosen).
Harald Fairhair, also known as Harald Hårfagre, lived around 850 to 932 AD.
He became the first king to unify Norway, a process that culminated in the Battle of Hafrsfjord in 872 AD. This battle marked a significant turning point, allowing him to consolidate various petty kingdoms into one realm.
Legend states that he vowed not to cut his hair until he achieved this unification, spurred by his love for Gyda Eiriksdatter, who refused to marry him until he became king of Norway.
We had an admiral who accepted getting sent on a suicide mission after the prince had his huddy the head of government lynched and eaten. To prevent the guy from becoming a rallying symbol for further opposition.
So he basically never became a head of government because of his sacrifice for his country.
Its June 1940, and the USSR has just changed tone regarding the Baltic States from demonstratively cordial to outright hostile. Lithuania is accused of kidnapping and killing the soldiers from the Soviet garrisons, and no cooperative actions of Lithuania placate the “enraged” Soviets.
As the Germans approach Paris, fully capturing the world attention, the Soviets at night present the ultimatum to the leadership already next morning to accept much more Soviet troops in, change government to the more Soviet friendly one and to arrest and put on trial the interior minister Skučas and head of state security Povilaitis as the ones supposedly “responsible for provocations against the Soviet garrisons”.
The government gathers for the last meeting, and in a solemn mood try to analyze their options. While some are trying to argue “we can arrest these two required officials, as it will be our courts anyway that would try them, so may go easy on them”, the president dismisses that furiously, saying, first, these men did nothing wrong, second, they always were loyally carrying government’s orders, and throwing them under a bus would amount to betrayal. In the end of the meeting there is a lack of support for proper resistance to the Soviets, and conditions are really unfavorable (garrisons already in the country are already close to the size of national army, and twice that is standing by at the border). The president decides to withdraw himself, and tells the interior minister not to shed his blood pointlessly and leave while he still can.
The interior minister along with the security chief brings their families to the border. They are still free to cross it, but are waiting. When officers (still Lithuanian ones, but acting under the pro-Soviet orders now) come to take them, the interior minister doesn’t even resist, just arranges that his family leaves safely (security chief tries to run, but decides to surrender rather than having a firefight with a policeman who’s after him). The interior minister explains his actions in this way: why run? They will just take revenge on my employees instead.
He is arrested, spends his remaining life in questioning, transitions and Moscow prison, is executed there a year later (same with the security chief). Only general area where his remains were buried (in mass graves) is known.
Of the 30+ portuguese monarchs, I only consider a handful to have done a great job. A dozen more or so did good. The rest were from mediocre to downright incompetent.
Pedro IV, despite only having officially reigned for 53 days (the shortest term in the history of our monarchy), is one of my favourites. As a ruler, he might be on the mediocre side, but he’s got a great story and he’s the only one I can think of that did what you can call a “sacrifice”. Let’s see if I can make this short enough:
He moved to Brasil, at 9 years of age, when the royal family moved to Rio de Janeiro (making it the *de facto* capital of Portugal). He grew up there and, in his early twenties, after his father moved back to Portugal, he declared independence of Brasil and was crowned its king/emperor, a very liberal one, by the way. This was at a time when he was also being suggested as the potential king for the newly independent Greece, wich he refused.
Portugal came to recognize the independence of Brasil. Shortly afterwards, Pedro’s father died and Pedro was the rightful heir to the portuguese throne, but accepting it would upset the brasilians, so he resigned after the aforementioned 53 days. His plan for the portuguese throne: get his 7-year old daughter, Maria, to marry his absolutist brother, Miguel, and have Miguel reign until she’s old enough.
Suffice it to say, that didn’t work out as planned and, when Maria was finally old enough, Miguel seized the throne and reverted Portugal back to an absolutist monarchy. Seeing Portugal falling into some bad old habits, Pedro resigned from the brasilian throne, left all his other children in Brasil and traveled to Europe to help Maria.
After a year gathering allies, he headed to Porto, where he was surrounded by Miguel’s troops. The siege of Porto lasted a year, during which Pedro helped build trenches, he fought alongside his soldiers, all the while fighting tuberculosis. He was also informed of the death of one of his daughters back in Brasil. In the end, he succeeded and won the war, with his daughter being crowned the new queen of Portugal. However, Pedro never returned to his beloved Brasil, dying shortly after of his decease.
Probably the treaty of waitangi Basically in order to establish western law and avoid conflicts and wars from greivances and misunderstandings, the crown signed a treaty with Maori to share the country on the condition that they recognised the British monarchs sovereignty* over the country over their own sovereignty as chiefs. In exchange the Crown would offer the tribes recognition of ownership of their possessions, customs and lands and recognition as British subjects (extremely rare event for indigenous peoples).
*the texts were different in different languages so it’s not as black and white as I claim, not all chiefs agreed to sign, there’s 1000 layers to this story but I’m just trying to simplify for reddit.
Go read the Wikipedia article if you want a full picture. I also don’t know why the algorithm thinks I’m from the EU.
21 comments
One of the biggest personal sacrifices made by a Finnish leader to keep the nation together was by Risto Ryti, the fifth President of Finland. During World War II, in 1944, Ryti signed a so called Ryti-Ribbentrop Agreement with Nazi Germany, which guaranteed continued German military aid to Finland against the Soviet Union. He signed this agreement in his personal capacity to allow his successor more flexibility in negotiating peace with the Soviets. After the war, Ryti was sentenced to ten years in prison for his role in the war, a charge many saw as unjust given that he acted to protect Finland.
Edit replying to comments:
> Whitewashing a criminal? u/bloodsucker_
> finns sure do love siding with the nazis u/Odd-Escape3425
It saddens me deeply that the sacrifices made by so many Finns during World War II, and the hardships endured by the generation of my grandparents, are often stained by ignorant comments suggesting that Finns were Nazi sympathizers or aligned with their ideologies. The alliance with Germany was a desperate and difficult decision made in the face of an existential threat from the Soviet Union, not out of any alignment with Nazi ideology. Thousands of people lost their lives defending their homes and families, and it’s disheartening to see their sacrifices overshadowed by misunderstandings of the complex and painful choices that had to be made. This situation bears similarities to what Ukraine faces today, where a smaller nation is forced to make difficult decisions to survive against a more powerful aggressor. These decisions were driven by a need to survive as a nation, not by shared beliefs or values with the Nazis.
Erik Scavenius. He was prime minister during most or WWI and again from 1940-1943. He did a very good job balancing Denmark through WII as a neutral state. And he similarly balanced Denmark on a knife’s edge during WWII with the so-called “policy of negotiation.”
He ensured, e.g., no death penalty, court cases to be held in Denmark, lenient punishments, convicts were to serve time in Denmark, and avoiding an order of deportation of the Jews.
This all until August of 1943. The resistance has grown bigger, and at the same time, the Nazis had taken off their velvet gloves. The government stepped down, refusing to accept the demands of the occupation force.
Scavenius got harshly judged after the war and h4 is not considered a “hero of the nation” or anything like that whatsoever. But he and his government did the best they could for Denmark during a very difficult time, and made good but unpopular decisions.
His analysis that Denmark was in no position to fight back against Germany and that guarded cooporation was the wise course of action, is now largely agreed upon.
On a lighter note: When Queen Margrethe II recently abdicated to let her som become king, it was the first time since 1146 in Denmark that a monarch abdicated. I don’t think it was too much of a sacrifice for her, though. She is getting old, and now she gets to enjoy a peaceful retirement.
Converted to Catholicism (Henri IV of France) I suppose.
No great history of personal sacrifice otherwise.
OK Charles de Gaulle move to England which is quite bleak when you think about it but I was only 4 years…
I tell you who’d be bottom of the list for putting the country first: David fucking Cameron.
Took us into a Brexit vote for party purposes and then walked away from the mess he’d created the day Britain voted to leave.
What a self serving cretin
Kaiser Wilhelm II and the old monarchists like Hindenburg and Ludendorff were to blame for Germany’s defeat in WWI. Yet the Kaiser never had to face any personal consequences and lived a comfy life in a palace in the Netherlands.
While republican politicians who tried to stabilise the county and move forward fell victim to political Assassinations in the early 1920s like Matthias Erzberger (the guy who signed the armistice of compiègne) or Walther Rathenau who was foreign minister and tried to work with the Entente powers and protect the Republic.
The First Italian prime minister, Camillo Benso Count of Cavour when he was still prime minister only of the kingdom of Sardinia (and piedmont) went to war against Austria to start the unification of Italy and ordered to flood a series of rice farms to gain time until the French army arrived. Almost everything he owned was invested in rice farms in the place he flooded.
During the height of the Red Army Faction terror campaign in Germany in the 1970s the security services informed chancellor Helmut Schmidt that the RAF were likely planning to abduct or kill him and his wife Loki. The threat was real, the RAF had murdered a well-known and highly protected german industrialist just days earlier.
They both immediately signed a decree in which they explicitly forbid the German government to negotiate for their release should they be kidnapped. Effectively signing their own death warrants in advance so Germany wouldn’t give in to terrorist demands.
Years later Schmidt, infamous for his chain smoking habits, was asked what it takes to lead during such a crisis. His immortal reply was “Attitude. And cigarettes”.
Fun fact: Germans later joked that he only did that because he knew that he wouldn’t last very long in captivity without a constant supply of cigarettes and would prefer immediate execution over nicotine withdrawal.
And during the Munich massacre, the attack on Israeli athletes at the 1972 Olympics, the mayor of Munich personally offered the Palestinian terrorists to exchange himself for one of the Israeli hostages. Which the terrorists refused, but the courage needed to even offer it still impresses me.
No heroic stories that I can remember.
It is said that Leopold Figl beat the soviet delegates in a drinking competition while discussing the end of occupation after WW2. I guess the hangover next day is a sacrifice.
Personal sacrifice….maybe Churchill. He was disliked by Parliament and had to make some tough decisions, but if it wasn’t for him I firmly believe the other MPs would have signed an agreement with the Nazis.
Not sure if it counts as a ‘sacrifice’ since he didn’t end up losing anything by it, but king Albert I led the Belgian army throughout World War 1 and stayed near the front line for the entire war (while the government fled to France). There he decided to not retreat the army to France and to keep the frontline in Belgium, which in hindsight was (probably) the right decision.
After the war, he initiated talks that reformed the Belgian political system. Most notably, he managed to convince the politicians to accept the universal singular voting system, which was the main demand of the socialists. By acting as a mediator, it’s possible that Albert managed to deter a potential revolution, or at least decreased political tensions.
Philippines:
Offer his life to awaken the people
Rizal, Aquino
Flee the country to avert civil war
Marcos
PS: Marcos is a villain
António de Oliveira Salazar from Portugal sacrificed himself for the country avoiding Portugal to join 2WW.
He is known for walking around with his shoes with holes and was very humble and no one can point a finger to his effort to try to save the country.
With the years he got stuck to the power and lack of adapting to modernisation on all aspects (including Human rights and colonies) ended up to stain all his career however no one can say that he did not sacrifice himself. Until this day people keep saying that he was the only incorruptible politician that we had (and obviously they also criticised his measures against freedom that he was using in 1930-70 and that were normal in 1930/40 in all European countries).
Michael Collins, signing the Anglo Irish Treaty that established the Irish Free State and laid the foundations for the Republic. “Think, what have I got for Ireland? Something she has wanted this past 700 years. Will anyone be satisfied in the bargain? Will anyone? I tell you this, I have signed my death warrant.”
He was shot by anti-treaty forces 9 months later.
Brave Boris Johnson only had 12 parties during lockdown instead of the 15 originally planned. It’s hard to find a better example of putting the needs of the country before the needs of having a fat sesh with the lads.
I know he’s very much fallen out of favor but I will never not be impressed by Juan Carlos I letting Franco believe he would inherit and uphold his absolutist regime, only to then turn around (as a pretty big surprise) and lead the country into democracy. I don’t think it’s a personal sacrifice per se, but he could have had a LOT more power… and didn’t take it.
A bit ironic, but we Hungarians had two Jagello kings (a Polish dynasty) who died for Hungary, both against the Ottomans. The first in the battle of Varna, the second in the battle of Mohacs. And unfortunately i cannot imagine that any Hungarian politician would do such thing now despite they are Hungarians. Also, fellow Hungarians, if you read this and can come up with other examples, please do, because I feel bad that I couldnt find anyone else (Imre Nagy would qualify, but his sacrifice was not self-chosen).
Harald Fairhair, also known as Harald Hårfagre, lived around 850 to 932 AD.
He became the first king to unify Norway, a process that culminated in the Battle of Hafrsfjord in 872 AD. This battle marked a significant turning point, allowing him to consolidate various petty kingdoms into one realm.
Legend states that he vowed not to cut his hair until he achieved this unification, spurred by his love for Gyda Eiriksdatter, who refused to marry him until he became king of Norway.
We had an admiral who accepted getting sent on a suicide mission after the prince had his huddy the head of government lynched and eaten. To prevent the guy from becoming a rallying symbol for further opposition.
So he basically never became a head of government because of his sacrifice for his country.
Its June 1940, and the USSR has just changed tone regarding the Baltic States from demonstratively cordial to outright hostile. Lithuania is accused of kidnapping and killing the soldiers from the Soviet garrisons, and no cooperative actions of Lithuania placate the “enraged” Soviets.
As the Germans approach Paris, fully capturing the world attention, the Soviets at night present the ultimatum to the leadership already next morning to accept much more Soviet troops in, change government to the more Soviet friendly one and to arrest and put on trial the interior minister Skučas and head of state security Povilaitis as the ones supposedly “responsible for provocations against the Soviet garrisons”.
The government gathers for the last meeting, and in a solemn mood try to analyze their options. While some are trying to argue “we can arrest these two required officials, as it will be our courts anyway that would try them, so may go easy on them”, the president dismisses that furiously, saying, first, these men did nothing wrong, second, they always were loyally carrying government’s orders, and throwing them under a bus would amount to betrayal. In the end of the meeting there is a lack of support for proper resistance to the Soviets, and conditions are really unfavorable (garrisons already in the country are already close to the size of national army, and twice that is standing by at the border). The president decides to withdraw himself, and tells the interior minister not to shed his blood pointlessly and leave while he still can.
The interior minister along with the security chief brings their families to the border. They are still free to cross it, but are waiting. When officers (still Lithuanian ones, but acting under the pro-Soviet orders now) come to take them, the interior minister doesn’t even resist, just arranges that his family leaves safely (security chief tries to run, but decides to surrender rather than having a firefight with a policeman who’s after him). The interior minister explains his actions in this way: why run? They will just take revenge on my employees instead.
He is arrested, spends his remaining life in questioning, transitions and Moscow prison, is executed there a year later (same with the security chief). Only general area where his remains were buried (in mass graves) is known.
Of the 30+ portuguese monarchs, I only consider a handful to have done a great job. A dozen more or so did good. The rest were from mediocre to downright incompetent.
Pedro IV, despite only having officially reigned for 53 days (the shortest term in the history of our monarchy), is one of my favourites. As a ruler, he might be on the mediocre side, but he’s got a great story and he’s the only one I can think of that did what you can call a “sacrifice”. Let’s see if I can make this short enough:
He moved to Brasil, at 9 years of age, when the royal family moved to Rio de Janeiro (making it the *de facto* capital of Portugal). He grew up there and, in his early twenties, after his father moved back to Portugal, he declared independence of Brasil and was crowned its king/emperor, a very liberal one, by the way. This was at a time when he was also being suggested as the potential king for the newly independent Greece, wich he refused.
Portugal came to recognize the independence of Brasil. Shortly afterwards, Pedro’s father died and Pedro was the rightful heir to the portuguese throne, but accepting it would upset the brasilians, so he resigned after the aforementioned 53 days. His plan for the portuguese throne: get his 7-year old daughter, Maria, to marry his absolutist brother, Miguel, and have Miguel reign until she’s old enough.
Suffice it to say, that didn’t work out as planned and, when Maria was finally old enough, Miguel seized the throne and reverted Portugal back to an absolutist monarchy. Seeing Portugal falling into some bad old habits, Pedro resigned from the brasilian throne, left all his other children in Brasil and traveled to Europe to help Maria.
After a year gathering allies, he headed to Porto, where he was surrounded by Miguel’s troops. The siege of Porto lasted a year, during which Pedro helped build trenches, he fought alongside his soldiers, all the while fighting tuberculosis. He was also informed of the death of one of his daughters back in Brasil. In the end, he succeeded and won the war, with his daughter being crowned the new queen of Portugal. However, Pedro never returned to his beloved Brasil, dying shortly after of his decease.
Probably the treaty of waitangi Basically in order to establish western law and avoid conflicts and wars from greivances and misunderstandings, the crown signed a treaty with Maori to share the country on the condition that they recognised the British monarchs sovereignty* over the country over their own sovereignty as chiefs. In exchange the Crown would offer the tribes recognition of ownership of their possessions, customs and lands and recognition as British subjects (extremely rare event for indigenous peoples).
*the texts were different in different languages so it’s not as black and white as I claim, not all chiefs agreed to sign, there’s 1000 layers to this story but I’m just trying to simplify for reddit.
Go read the Wikipedia article if you want a full picture. I also don’t know why the algorithm thinks I’m from the EU.